Follow the thread people hand you

Warm-up

From last time. Does each question work, or get you nothing?

1. So the main problem was the delivery times, right?

   Works Gets nothing

   Right, it's a question that gets nothing. It's leading. It holds the answer Ryan wanted, and it was wrong.

   Not quite. It's a question that gets nothing. It's leading. It holds the answer Ryan wanted, and it was wrong.

2. What happened that made you stop ordering for everyone?

   Works Gets nothing

   Right, it's a question that works. It asks about something that really happened.

   Not quite. It's a question that works. It asks about something that really happened.

3. Would you pay a dollar extra for group ordering?

   Works Gets nothing

   Right, it's a question that gets nothing. It's a guess about the future, tied to Ryan's idea.

   Not quite. It's a question that gets nothing. It's a guess about the future, tied to Ryan's idea.

Last time, you marked up Ryan’s first interview, with Dana. About half his questions got something useful.

But the most common mistake wasn’t a bad question. It was a good answer that Ryan let go by.

Think first

Dana, studio manager, to Ryan: Everyone took their box. Then I had to get the money back. I keep a notebook of who owes me. I’ve lost count of what I’m owed.

What would you ask Dana next?

What you'd ask next Hint: use her words, or ask for something you could see. If a friend said my phone bill is a mess, you might ask: Can you show me last month's?

Lock in my answer Skip, show me

You

Which of these is closest to your answer?

Was the food on time that day?

Shirish

That’s what Ryan asked. Dana said, A bit late. Not bad. And the notebook was gone for half an hour.

What did she just say that was bigger than the food?

How much are you owed, roughly?

Shirish

Good. It takes her own words and asks for a number. A number is something you can check.

Is there a way to get the number without relying on her memory?

Can you show me the notebook?

Shirish

Yes. Now you’re not asking her to remember. You’re asking to see. Ryan did ask this, at the very end. Every debt in it was crossed out.

What would you look for, once she opens it?

That must be really annoying. Is it?

Shirish

It’s kind. But it hands her a feeling, and she’ll agree with it. You’ll learn your word, not hers.

What could you ask about the notebook itself?

Your reply

Continue Skip

You

What this means

Dana handed Ryan a thread: I’ve lost count of what I’m owed. It was the real problem, in her own words. He asked about the food.

That was your bet in lesson 2.5: the most common mistake in a first interview. It’s not asking more about what people just said. Ryan let a thread go four times, more than any other mistake.

Reset

The four threads Ryan dropped

Each line below is something Dana said. Each time, Ryan moved on.

1. We use it less now, though. He asked what she likes most about the app.
2. I’ve lost count of what I’m owed. He asked if the food was on time.
3. One of the juniors bought me a coffee and said, ‘We’re even.’ It was for a $14 lunch. He laughed and asked about the subscription.
4. I wasn’t the only one who stopped. The studio next door stopped too. He thanked her and ended the interview.

Every one of them led to the real problem, or to the next person to talk to.

Five ways to follow a thread

When someone hands you a thread, these five follow-ups pull it. Use whichever fits.

1. Ask for specifics. How much? When? Who? How much are you owed, roughly?
2. Ask what happened next. And then what did you do?
3. Ask for a before and after. Ryan did this well: You said the table is empty most days. What was it like before August?
4. Ask about the hardest part. What was the hardest part of that?
5. Ask how it felt, last. Feelings matter, but ask after the facts, not before.

Two more things work, and cost nothing:

• Say their words back. Lost count? Then wait. People explain.
• Say nothing. Count to five in your head. The silence feels long to you. To them, it’s room to keep going.

And one thing to avoid: don’t bring in your own words. Dana never said split the bill. When Ryan said it, she started talking about his idea, not her life.

Follow the thread, or drop it?

Practice

Dana says: "One of the juniors bought me a coffee and said, 'We're even.' It was for a $14 lunch." Does each reply follow her thread, or drop it?

1. Ha, that's funny. Do you use the Tiffin subscription?

   Follows it Drops it

   Right, it's a reply that drops her thread. That's what Ryan said. The coffee story was about money she gave up on, and he changed the subject.

   Not quite. It's a reply that drops her thread. That's what Ryan said. The coffee story was about money she gave up on, and he changed the subject.

2. "We're even"?

   Follows it Drops it

   Right, it's a reply that follows her thread. Her own words, said back. She'll tell you what she thought of it.

   Not quite. It's a reply that follows her thread. Her own words, said back. She'll tell you what she thought of it.

3. What did you do with it in the notebook?

   Follows it Drops it

   Right, it's a reply that follows her thread. It asks what happened next. She wrote it down, then crossed it out.

   Not quite. It's a reply that follows her thread. It asks what happened next. She wrote it down, then crossed it out.

4. Would a split-the-bill button have helped?

   Follows it Drops it

   Right, it's a reply that drops her thread. It's your idea, not her story. Now she's judging a feature.

   Not quite. It's a reply that drops her thread. It's your idea, not her story. Now she's judging a feature.

5. (Say nothing, and wait.)

   Follows it Drops it

   Right, it's a reply that follows her thread. Silence gives her room. She said: "It's not worth the fight."

   Not quite. It's a reply that follows her thread. Silence gives her room. She said: "It's not worth the fight."

Turn a feeling into something you can see

Words like annoying or painful are beetles in a box, from lesson 3.1. The best follow-up turns them into something you can see. I learned that from my own follow-up, which went the wrong way.

The stronger version is short: Can you show me? The notebook, the sheet, the group chat. Then you’re not asking her to remember. You’re looking at it together.

Words from this lesson

Probe

A short follow-up that asks for more of what the person just said. In this lessonLost count? How much, roughly?

Follow-up ladder

Five kinds of follow-up: details, what came next, before and after, the hard part, and the feeling. In this lessonHow much? Then what? What was it like before?

Talk ratio

How much of the interview you spend talking. Aim for less than a fifth. In this lessonIn a 30-minute interview, you speak for under 6 minutes.

Back to your first answer

Your first answer

Your answer

Your answer will show here after you write one at the top of this page.

You skipped this at the top. Answer it now, with what you've learned.

You've read the lesson. Would you change your answer?

I'd keep it I'd change it

Good. Which part of this lesson backs your answer?

The four threads Ryan dropped Five ways to follow a thread Say their words back, or say nothing My follow-up about painful Something else

Why? One line is enough. (optional) What would you say now?

Your bet: what can watching show that asking can’t?

Your bet

On Thursday, Mia interviewed Sara, who orders lunch for a travel agency. Sara said the money is easy. Her trouble is the menu, which she types out every morning.

Mia asks to come back and watch Sara’s next order.

What’s the most useful thing Mia can bring back from watching? Make your bet, and say how sure you are.

Your guess

Sara's opinion of the menu A count: minutes spent typing, and mistakes made Sara's rating of the app

How sure are you?

50% 70% 90%

You'll find the answer in Lesson 3.4: Watch what people do.

Try this during the week: when someone mentions a problem, say their last few words back as a question. Then wait. Notice what comes next.

Sources

• Indi Young, Practical Empathy, 2015. On listening, and on not bringing in your own words.
• Teresa Torres, Continuous Discovery Habits, 2021. On asking for a specific story, not a general answer.
• Steve Portigal, Interviewing Users, second edition, 2023. On silence and follow-up questions.
• The role-play is from my own practice. Tiffin, Ryan, Dana, Mia and Sara are made up for this course.